The main problem here is the iPhone/Pod/Pad itself. It is not a full fledged gaming system, and it will never be lack of buttons is one of the main problems, and we all know what Steve Jobs thinks about adding buttons to iDevice (there are many reasons, one of them is that it will make it up to two times uglier etc.). The other one is the main target group of games in the App Store. That determines the games market for iDevices 80% of games are casual titles, and finding something more ambitious for lets say me 28 year old guy that started his gaming adventure in the early 90s can be sometimes difficult, and searching for good games using the charts is a waste of time imho. My opinion about iPhone as a gaming device is here http://forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?p=1542288#post1542288 , I dont want to repeat myself. App Store is a kind of reflection of what the gaming industry has become over the last +/- 5 years there is need for more casual, simplified games, so thats the main direction many companies are going. A great example is Gothic and Elder Scrolls series. Compare Gothic 1-2, and then see what happened with Gothic 3 or 4. Same story with Morrowind (one of my all time favorite RPGs) compared to Oblivion, which was one of the biggest disappointments I have ever played. Not to mention Call of Duty series, which you can finish in around 8 hours (!!!). Yes, there are games more complex and deep in the App Store, but they are minority, and the nature of App Store market, pricing, and iDevices itself are the main reasons I dont see any light in the tunnel for a big change in this area. App Store is McDonalds? Somewhat exaggerated statement, but not much to be honest.
Your opinion is very interesting, Gunlock, but I don't understand the "full-fledged-gaming" thing. I don't think that a lack of buttons disqualifies the iOS-Devices as a "full-fledged-gaming" device. You have to draw a line between the game and the peripherals. I personally don't think that premium titles or "full-fledged-gaming" requires buttons. Buttons are simply the periphery people are used to, today. New periphery always causes lots of little games (as seen with eye toy, balance board, kinect), as developers have to be experimental to see how they can include it in their "premium" games. In my opinion, that does not mean premium (or full-fledged-gaming, like you said) doesn't work, though. Take real racing as an example: The button-less control system works incredibly well with a full premium game running on your display. Now, one may say, Real Racing is an exception because car steering fits naturally to an accelerometer. I don't think so, however. Developers have to creative, have to think of new control schemes for their games, and perhaps, change their game a bit to get them to work with button less input. The virtual button orgy you get with lots of gameloft games in the appstore just means that the devs developed their games with a button-scheme in mind, which you simply don't have on an iOS-Device. It's a change of mind required, to melt together what todays folks call an "AAA" video game and touch screens. But it's just a change of mind, in my opinion, nothing impossible.
English is not my native language so Im sorry if I dont express my thoughts clear enough I agree that Real Racing 2 is a good example of touch controls/accelerometer combo well implemented, RR2 is one of the best couple-of-bucks Ive spent on a game in the App Store. But accelerate/brake buttons are not analog, and that means you can't be precise with them like you could for example on a PS DualShock. I know RR2 doesnt require that much of precision, but at the same time that lack of analog sticks could be a problem if some company would like to make a Gran Turismo like racing sim, where a higher precision level would be required. I dont think mobile gaming devices can handle without buttons. Imho the best and only option today is a combo of both physical and touchscreen (both 3DS and PSP Vita have this combo). User needs to have a choice. This option is way more user friendly (and developer friendly btw) than just the touchscreen. Ive played many, many games on my iPhone and gaming experience was very various depending on how a game managed with touch controls. Some of them did well (RR2, puzzlers, etc.) but playing some of those games was very annoying (Crimson Gem Saga menu swiping omg!) and I repeated to myself boy, I could really use buttons now . Keep in mind that in many games virtual buttons mean that around 20% of screen (or even more if someone has big hands) is constantly blocked by your fingers, that makes the playing area quite small a problem that wouldnt exist with physical buttons onboard. Another example first person shooters. NOVA 2, Mission Europa Collectors Edition, Rage, Doom, Archetype all of those games would feel much more natural with a button/analog stick + touchscreen combo. Swiping all over the screen to aim feels awkward to me, but Ive enjoyed many of fps titles anyway. All of the above arguments + the fact that complex, deep (and more expensive) games are still minority in the App Store makes me think that iDevices will rather struggle to become a true gaming system.
Sure, in the end it's the consumer who hands over the cash in exchange for a product or service, but I believe it would be a bit disingenuous to deny how intricate and developed the process has become nowadays. Apple have always been exceptionally good at marketing and in the last ten years had to invest a lot to "educate" their clientele. jumping in retail was a gutsy move but paid off in handsome ways. As for the App Store, i do not see how digital products are exempt from the rules of consumerism and marketing.
Regarding Gunlock's objections, it's true that there is a loss of sensitivity and tactile feedback, but otoh touch screens have enabled a vast amount of flexibility for layout and mechanism of control. Physical buttons are desired by most of those who consider themselves serious, or more-than-casual, gamers. Unfortunately, I'm not sure of the ratio but I would bet they now constitute a minority on iDevices. The recent Fling peripheral is more balm for our wounds. I think it constitute a minor weakness, not a deal-breaker (at least not for the majority).
Tell you what, man. If they want to think about raising the bar in terms of file sizes, then the next iphone/ipod had better have AT LEAST DOUBLE the 64gb that they offer now! I was hoping the latest ipod 4th gen. would have 128gb of space on it, but noooooo! Other improvements, but the SAME 64gb deal! I am a rabid app/game animal, and am always dumping to get! Games keep getting bigger, so we need more room to put stuff! Ipad owners REALLY need it, too! So, hopefully, that'll happen with the 5th generation!
I think the appstore has grown into such a viable market that a premium section wouldn't be out of the question. Games running 10+ USD would not become the be all end all of iOS gamers. If anything it would attract more gamers, attention, companies, ect. I, for one, support a premium section. I would love seeing higher quality (albeit, higher price as well) games made available to us. My game interests have evolved from simple pick up and play games to 120 hour RPGs, and it's about time the appstore becomes a quality(er) market. "Times, they are a changin'"
Yeah, unfortunately, better games (in terms of - graphics, gameplay, length, etc.) will have to take up more space on your device. By common logic, this would be a good thing for Apple to promote higher quality games. Better games means a bigger audience. Bigger games means more incentive for people to pay the extra buck for more storage space. As of now, though, I'm having a hard time shuffling games around on my device. I've got a 32 gb and about 25 gb is filled with media (pics, vids and music). The remaining 7 is what I use to shuffle games. Now, if I were using my device purely for gaming with some music, I'd have no problem keeping any amount of games on my device at one time. When games reach the quality and length that they break above 2+ gb for install, then I'm afraid that's what I'm gonna have to do. Haha. Actually, I think Rage HD took 2 gigs for install and that's mostly due to the graphics. The game's honestly not that long. 9mm also took nearly 2 gigs for install and it's rather short as well and some graphical assets aren't so well made there either. So I'm expecting somewhere in the range of 3+ gigs seems about right where we'd be seeing real console quality length and production. Not to mention a hefty price tag along with the heavy file. It can be done! IMO.
I think a lot of the issues surrounding the crap and cheap stems from a facts. A large portion of the casual gamers are just that, people who game casually and if they didn't own an iOS device may not play video games much or at all Those new to gaming in general expect to paty $1 per game, because this is what they have been shown is the norm App stores in general level the playing field for developers making it MUCH easier to publish games, good or bad So a VERY large portion of casual mobile gamers expect that games will be cheap, this is very evident in other cheaper platforms also where the devices are cheaper (I'm talking about you Android). This hurts developers and also the quality of the games that are released. There will always be standouts, but while the price point for mobile games remains low so too will the quality and length of many games. You simply get what you pay for :-S That aside, I think there is a growing trend for developers to sell their games for more, how many games cost $5 when the app store was full of fart apps and not much else? This is a great new gaming niche with very wide reach and appeal. It's just going growing pains and has bad acne from eating too much fast food.
I share your opinion, Luke Kellett But what do you think about the said premium section in the appstore?
See, the thing is, the quality of controls is based on how the customer adapts to it. sure, there's some games with bad and some with good controls, and some might credit that to the lack of buttons. but tbh, that's simply because you're used to buttons. I can play any game with virtual buttons better or as good than if the buttons were physical. I completely destroy at iOS FPS but im terrible on all consoles and computers. If the controls are bad, then chances are, that's on the devs, not the system. the same game without buttons can have better controls than with buttons. First, buttons are not fixed, so that gives more freedom for options for control. second, the main complaint is how there is no feedback with virtual buttons, but tbh, that isn't really needed if you're used to virtual buttons. for me, physical ones can be a pain the ass sometimes. Try and tell me that black ops for the wii has better controls than MC2. <-- ^ sorry about the randomness of that paragraph. too lazy to go back n edit. XD
I Love McDonalds! Where else can I, for a dollar, drink unlimited Diet Coke, plug in my iPhone and use Wifi for however long? And they're giving out free coffee this week (as they did last week!) Been pretty damned happy with the App Store - at least in the short run, these $0.99 sales have been a winning situation for us consumers. It's just this big, monstrosity called iTunes that I get frustrated with as it really doesn't handle large libraries well. (Meaning I'm shuffling app/video/music files by hand and only keeping items I've got on my phone in iTunes... )
I have 25 gb to shuffle games around and STILL have a hard time dropping lots of them! Some might say there's no excuse for that, but I like most of the stuff I have right now and have a hard time dumping stuff. So many things I've dumped and wish I had back along the lines of Glyder2, etc. Know what I'm saying? If I'm gonna spend a lot of money on these games, I'd love to have more room and IF I could pay for another 64gb of space on the fly, I'd do it in a snap! And I'll buy the next generation, probably, too. I've bought 4 so far, and sold the others as I've gone along. I had the 16, 32, 64, then now the 4th gen.64, and seriously jones for 128. (at least) It's a sickness, I think!
I actually wanted to weigh in on this too, just though that would be a bit much for a single post hehe Well like any restaurant or shop for that matter there are always higher quality premium products/brands that compete with the cheaper generic products and brands. I don't see the apps store as any different. I think there is room for this type of category, and by creating one it may help developers to aim a bit higher with the knowledge that they are competing with apps/games of a similar calibre and price point. Rather than directly competing with the $0.99 category... I'll take a premium quality burger over a Big Mac any day!
Wish I was at your Mcdonalds...... My Mcdonalds has nothing. We use Hungry Jacks here(Burger King). Cheap Drinks and refills but no Wi-fi. Mcdonalds= Expensive drinks, Wifi no refills.
AWESOMENESS. I posted this idea of a premium section in the appstore for 10$+ games some days ago, we've got an interesting discussion, and today on the frontpage of TA, Fishlab's (Galaxy on Fire) CEO Schade is quoted "Schade wants a premium $10 market on the App Store because he thinks developers of high-end games deserve it and consumers actually want it." I'm just excited that big developers share this idea
So would most people but you cant get a premium quality burger during your lunch break, hence fast food restaurants are good. For something quick and easy McDonalds is superb (just dont go there everyday !). Have a long lunch break - go to a nice pub and have a quality burger but it takes longer. Same with apps, theres some apps i buy, i know theyre cheap for a reason, might not play it a week later but it fills the 'hole' for a few days a bit like a cheap McDonalds/BK. Makes me laugh when people say 'do you know the stuff they put in it ?, the meats terrible ?'. 'Really' ? Are you saying i dont have prime steak in my 59p burger ? No way !!!! Reminds me out of that scene in Trainspotting when one of them says 'you wont catch me putting that **** into me' (hes talking about the others injecting drugs) and hes sat there drinking pint after pint and smoking ! Cheap apps (and cheap burgers) are good, i'm glad the appstore is full of different types of games, some throwaway type of ones, others last much longer.
I too am delighted. I hope a few others come out in the open and challenge Apple. I'm not too optimistic on Apple's potential reception though. I'm convinced that they are very much lukewarm to the idea.
