I think I can sum up my thoughts on this by pointing out that I spent $1.99 on Miika to get more MV style game play. That kind of level design is worth paying for.
The saddest part of this thread is that I literally cannot even begin to count the number of games where I wish I could spend a couple of extra bucks for more of. So many classic games out there, so many instances where a few extra levels would be worth twice was Monument Valley will be asking for.
Did GaZ-OiD really get banned just for this thread? Maybe there were some deleted posts that I didn't see, because there's nothing close to ban-worthy in this thread.
I'd expect random complaints on this matter, but I'm surprised there's actually a thread devoted to it. This clearly was a relatively expensive iOS game to make and considering it also was fairly popular one can objectively say this game was worth at least the few dollars it cost whether or not it is short. Length isn't everything either. Some of the best arcade style games I've played on iOS I've probably put only a few hours into and then moved on. I could easily find the motivation to play through a decent RPG for 20 hours and still not really rate it in a context where its exponentially more valuable because it's designed to take hours out of you. There's a lot of repetition in RPGs and in arcade style games. Monument Valley, on the other hand, presents a short but continually differentiated experience. If you look at this game in terms of differentiated content, it IS actually quite big.
To be clear, GaZ didn't create this thread. His posts were derailing the original game thread, so admins transferred them to a new one.
Ah, now that I didn't realise. To tell the truth on re-reading it within that context, Gaz wasn't the first one to accuse anyone of anything, and merely responded to an accusation after giving his opinion, that I didn't agree with, but he is surely entitled to.
Hi guys, apologies for not seeing this thread before now, we were looking at another one wondering why it was kind of dead. You're all over here! It's a shame Gaz isn't around as it would have been cool to have a quick exchange with him. Gaz if you're lurking it's ok to not like our game, it's obviously not the style of game for you and that's cool, there's plenty of games that get highly rated and some of us don't like for whatever reason. Saying that, I thought I'd try and explain a little about our decision to release extra chapters for a fixed price and also for our decision to charge $4 for the main game. Upon inception of Monument Valley we made the decision to not disrupt the experience in any way, no leaderboards, no achievements, no consumable IAP and no "share to Facebook to earn coins". As gamers ourselves we wanted the most pure and engaging experience possible and to do that meant no interruptions. What this means however is that there's no way for us to monetize what's there apart from a premium entry price, this also goes for an expansion pack of new content. Now this was never and will never be a focus for our team, we care about bringing you the best and most beautiful experiences we can, but unfortunately we do need to think about cost at some point just so we can put roofs over peoples heads in an expensive London. For the amount of time and love we put into Monument Valley we believed $4 to be a fair price and so far 1.4m people have felt the same. If MV was four times longer and four times the price ($16), similar to Journey would it be acceptable? Unfortunately the only way we can make this level of quality work is if we charge a premium price for it. We've been lucky enough to have made enough money to make our next game and that means that we can continue to take risks and hopefully continue to bring joy to people. I hope we manage to win you over with one of our next games as we'd really love you on board. We shall fight you with hugs, oh fallen warrior. ustwo.
@ustwo - I think Monument Valley is a phenomenal experience and will be looking forward to purchasing the next installment.
haha - proper good post, ustwo. I even forgive the freemium conversion of whale trail with that post. All the best with MV and beyond.
Great post by ustwogames I mean think about some devs, eg these devs in London, paying a high rent, working for months for no money to get the game released, 'gambling' that its a hit so they can then pay themselves, pay for other things (perhaps contractors who do graphics or even the rent etc !). Thankfully its a huge hit, now they can concentrate on spending time expanding the game. As he says theres no crappy 'like us on twitter/facebook so we can spam it for a few coins' stuff, no ad's or anything. Its a great game, i wouldnt say its 'high priced' at all. I bought games in the 80's when most were $12 or so EACH and many were of bad quality (as a kid you were devastated when you saved up for weeks and then bought some terrible game). Here the games so cheap , even with the expansion levels. I'm happy to support this dev, happy to support a quality team who produce premium games rather than freemium tosh, long may they be successful
I understood this was a construct of some sort. It's just interesting that it's such a substantial attitude toward this game.
Echochrome Since this game came out, I've seen nobody noticing that this is an Echochrome (psp, ps3) with beautiful graphics. This was a long, difficult and so fun game. Compared to Echochrome, MV is a (short but beautiful) joke. All my respect to devs, I really love the graphic style, but they should call it a port instead of a fresh new game)
A lot of people have mentioned the similarity to Echochrome and we also mentioned it ourselves in one of our first ever interviews for Monument Valley: Looking at Echochrome, its a really nice piece of work but I think one area we can improve on, or at least what this game could do better, is that Echochrome is the same couple of mechanics spun over a lot of levels so you kind of end up doing the same thing over and over. Our approach is that each level tells its own little story and has its own unique mechanic. http://www.edge-online.com/news/whale-trail-studio-ustwos-next-game-revealed-monument-valley/ There's definite similarities in terms of "impossibly geometry", but then again this has happened for years as it's a cool concept, look at Realm of Impossibility or Marble Madness on the C64 for example and they're in the 80's. No harm in having your own take on similar ideas.
You didnt notice more echochrome has been mentioned by us a few times in the original game thread. It isnt a port by definition because it isnt the same game. Inspired, yes, but far from being a port. I for one dont consider it a clone either cos of the different feel you get when playing either game.
I feel like Monument Valley and 無限回廊 (Echochrome) are very different games. They share a perspective, an unusual one, and a single mechanic, but what they do with them is very different, just as Fez and Kush Games's Crush do different things. Echochrome is more of a mechanical puzzle game, having you use the mechanics in increasingly challenging stages that have little if any practical link. MV layers in new tricks it goes but ultimately seems less concerned with building mechanically as it does with building thematically. It's more like a tour than echochrome's exercise. Calling MV a port of 無限回廊 is like calling Braid a port of Super Mario World. They use similar perspectives and mechanics to achieve entirely different aims. There is room for both. I also need to point out the elephant in the room. MV is certainly a shorter and more content-light game than Echochrome by orders of magnitude, but it also launched at $3.99. Unless I'm misremembering, Echochrome launched in limited form on PS3 (50 stages, or 5x MV) for ¥2000 ($20ish) and in full form (100 stages, or 10x MV) on PSP for ¥4000 ($40ish). I think each game presents more or less the same amount of content per dollar/yen. That surely merits consideration, especially considering MV's stages use different assets from one another, representing a higher develoent effort per stage than echochrome's stages that all share the same set of assets. I'd also like to point out that Echochrome is not the first game to play with perspectives the way it does. It was predated by months by Crush, and I'm dead certain other games have used similar ideas years before, if not decades. If a debt is owed, it's clearly to MC Escher, and it's owed by many.
Well, all this has just made me want to reload MV again before the expansion pack lands so it really is money well spent for me.
There's nothing wrong with optional extra content, it's when they build it into the game and make it unavailable that I get a bit miffed, like WH Quest.
