Apple just shot itself- and the devs too!

Discussion in 'Public Game Developers Forum' started by cramzy, Nov 6, 2009.

  1. arn

    arn Administrator
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    Apr 19, 2008
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    one potential side effect, btw...

    mentioned by nattylux... is that if the # of "frivolous" updates do drop off due to this system, then the approval queue should be shortened.

    arn
     
  2. Syndicated Puzzles

    Syndicated Puzzles Well-Known Member

    I figured it out! Xmas is coming! I had plans to create updates to fall in and around Xmas for all my games. I think the appstore had no choice but to pull the plug on updates being listed (featured) It would have been physically impossible to process all the Xmas updates..... THEY HAD NO CHOICE>>>> THIS IS A RESULT OF OUR BEHAVIOUR AS GREEDY HUMANS!!!!! Give us a loop hole we will use it! 100 000 Apps all mysteriously need to be updated right before Xmas = the plug being pulled.
     
  3. NickFalk

    NickFalk Well-Known Member

    As I mentioned earlier I think the decision on Apple's part was a good one. I can see why Cramzy finds it frustrating but the former practice was obviously flawed.

    Where Apple did go wrong though was where they often fail: The complete lack of communication. As a lot of developers have put their efforts and money into a release-schedule taking advantage of the update == visibility, Apple should simply have informed everyone that from a certain date, only new releases would be included among the new releases. Makes sense when you think of it doesn't it? ;)

    On the other side, Insulting Monk was released yesterday, but doesn't show up when sorting on release date in the entertainment section at all...
     
  4. ChaoticBox

    ChaoticBox Well-Known Member

    Oct 8, 2008
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    I didn't have a day job so that's besides the point - maybe "stop complaining" was a little harsh, but your blog post reads like a tantrum. You should at least be thankful and a little more gracious towards Apple, who've apparently provided a way for you to quit your day job...

    Personally I think this change (fix) is long overdue. The number of illegitimate "updates" has been ridiculous since the early days and I'm sure this was (is) a huge strain on the approval process. Now all Apple has to do is clamp down on app-spammers, enforce proper categorization, spread out release dates, stop listing releases alphabetically, fix the horrible laggy data caching, add more pages to the top lists -- but one step at a time.
     
  5. flod

    flod Active Member

    Jan 5, 2009
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    In my specific case – 5-6 sales/week in the good ol' days :), – jumping to the top of the category list after the effort put into every update was a nice reward – more exposure, sales were "jumping" to an astonishing ~20/week.
    So, yeah, it sounds like a bad thing.

    Still, certain categories are so polluted by releases of "SomeGame XXX Respect/Magic/Honor/Wotnot Points" every other day, that you didn't stand a chance. These guys release at once up to 10 instances of the same game, so when this happens for 2-3 such games in a row, good luck with anyone spotting *your* little game.
    No offense to the devs of these types of apps (they're just not my type, although they seem popular), but for this reason I think it's for the best.
     
  6. rdklein

    rdklein Well-Known Member

    Apr 3, 2009
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    I think this will lead to a new catastrophe.
    Instead of updating some will start with new releases. Also instead of adding in app purchases for new features new versions make more sense as they become visible to the users the addins "only" to old customers. (or they do both)
    --
    So the number of apps will increase quickly.
    --


    by the way I started with android meanwhile and what a difference it took me 5 MINUTES to bring my app in sale worldwide !! and was availble -- only SALES are bad bad bad.
     
  7. don_k

    don_k Well-Known Member

    Oct 9, 2008
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    Just because it's bad for him doesn't mean it's bad for everybody else. At the very least it's better for Apple and customers. I don't like how some devs make up a tiny update just to get visibility.
     
  8. TrueAxis

    TrueAxis Well-Known Member

    Sep 7, 2009
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    I think the crux of the problem is that most apps are pretty poor - this loop hole was a way for desperate developers to get more exposure.

    I think a lot of people entered app development with the thought of the big cash cow and created an app as quick as possible, then on release realized this dream was never going to happen, and would do anything to gain more exposure. All in all I think this is a pretty good move by Apple as the new releases will gain more exposure... And out of the new release, the ones that are good will reach the charts. This is a very fair system.

    What does this mean for the devs? Before you consider your next app, be smart, find a unique product and put a lot of effort in. Why release 5 products that will sink, when 1 good product executed well but takes a little longer to make? Doing this will bring in all the rewards.
     
  9. Mastersoft

    Mastersoft Well-Known Member

    Apr 27, 2009
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    On balance it is a good call. The review process appeared to be grinding to a halt so this should crank things up a bit. Also brand new apps deserve a lot more emphasis than updated ones, unless of course it's a major release update.
     
  10. FlagellumDei

    FlagellumDei Well-Known Member

    May 14, 2009
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    Apple should create a new category: Updated Apps. So, everyone would be happy.
     
  11. Mastersoft

    Mastersoft Well-Known Member

    Apr 27, 2009
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    That would be perfect.
     
  12. rdklein

    rdklein Well-Known Member

    Apr 3, 2009
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    yes good idea, why not all devs here write a ticket to app as feature request ? or in the connect...
    perfect though it wont solve the flood problem on the app review side, but they might use two different queues one for new and one for updates
     
  13. FlagellumDei

    FlagellumDei Well-Known Member

    May 14, 2009
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    New Apps would get high priority in the reviewing queue, and the updates could wait longer.

    I think that many customers will miss good apps, if the updated apps are not in the released list, and if they are not checking the AppStore each day.

    For example, our games got sales boost when they are updated (up to x10), and positive feedback. All these customers who bought our games after updates wouldn't otherwise know about the games if they wouldn't be updated.

    Keywords are useless. You are visiting google to find something specific, so keywords are extremely important, but on the App Store you buy what you see on the first pages, because you can always find something that catches your eye.
     
  14. Little White Bear Studios

    Little White Bear Studios Well-Known Member
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    #94 Little White Bear Studios, Nov 7, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2009
    Exactly, at least until everyone starts releasing version 2, 3, 4, 5, etc. instead of just updating the app.

    We can't even say this news is real yet, since the store is completely messed up right now. Heck, checking right now, Blocked in on the New Release list, with a date of Nov. 6th, version 1.0, and has 11,000 reviews. As far as I know, it has not had an update, ever.

    Edit: Just checked my stats for yesterday. One of my Lite versions, which has never had an update, had 8 update downloads. How is that possible?

    Now, if this news is true, I'm a bit torn. The success of my apps were very much tied to the update process, since I routinely provided new content. Fans loved the new content, and the update boost would bring in more cash, which motivated me to make more content. Everybody won. However, doing all those updates most certainly delayed work on new games. If updates are no longer profitable, I can't imagine doing them at the same rate as before, so I'll have more time to make new stuff, which is good, as maintaining an old product is not the most exciting thing in the world.
     
  15. MidianGTX

    MidianGTX Well-Known Member

    Jun 16, 2009
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    I'd prefer an "Updated Apps" category too. It's always annoyed me seeing old apps in the Recently released section, I appreciate that it's helpful for the developers but you have to admit... it's not that helpful for consumers who are trying to avoid seeing all the games they've heard about and only want the latest stuff.
     
  16. Little White Bear Studios

    Little White Bear Studios Well-Known Member
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    It would certainly be nice if the updates didn't disappear entirely, but I have a feeling an Updated Apps list wouldn't get looked at very much by the average consumer. It sort of has a used car lot vibe to it, in my mind anyway. Get your not new apps right here, folks! :)
     
  17. Syndicated Puzzles

    Syndicated Puzzles Well-Known Member

    Back to my point about Xmas( which no one commented on)...

    I really do believe Apple had no choice but to make this change at this precise moment before Xmas. It makes sense! Early enough to get the word out there, that updates don't get any special treatment anymore. The timing really explains a lot!
     
  18. bomber

    bomber Well-Known Member

    Nov 9, 2008
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    #98 bomber, Nov 7, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2009
    Our update for Cocoto Kart didn't appear in the release-date-list and we didn't had any boost either from our v1.2 update. However our game Allowin Pumpkins, released in October 2008, suddenly appeared in the release-date-list. Go figure.
    Personally I don't think changing the release-date list is doing anything to prevent spam. Spammers will just create tons of new apps instead of updates, that will increase the number of apps on the App Store and help Apples marketing. It will probably also make the reviews take even longer.
    On the other hand there is no benefit of update an app anymore. You don't get better visibility. Also the rating is changing randomly: the 100 five star ratings of your previous version are lost and its only showing the single one star review of the new version.
     
  19. Flickitty

    Flickitty Well-Known Member

    Oct 14, 2009
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    Actually, I thought you had a good point when you first made the comment, I just forgot to respond. Holiday updates are going to be ridiculous.

    TBH, we have a holiday update planned, but it is for our existing user base and is a natural extension of the existing game. We won't be affected by the changes to the App Store.
     
  20. Little White Bear Studios

    Little White Bear Studios Well-Known Member
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    #100 Little White Bear Studios, Nov 7, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2009
    That's by design, as of about nine months ago. It was meant to give people who had a crappy version, with crappy reviews, the chance to improve their app with an update, and get a fresh start. Personally, I hated the change, as I update often, and always have high rankings. Yet I look worse than my competition, because they never update, and have a much higher review count because of it.
     

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